City Council Meeting

Catherine ReadGood evening. I would like to call the regular meeting of October 27th, 2026 to order. If you are able and so choose please rise for the pledge of allegiance but for which it stands one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all we will now move on to the adoption of the agenda is there a motion to approve the agenda

Stacy HallI move to adopt the agenda with the following modification to defer agenda item number 7a public hearing and council action on a request from Mantua Hills Swimming Association for a special use permit amendment to modify conditions governing tennis court and swimming pool hours of operation on premises identified as 3425 Pickett Road and more particularly described as tax map 58-1-02-026A to a date certain of January 12, 2027.

Catherine ReadSecond. The motion has been made and seconded. A roll call vote.

ShinaberryclerkCouncilmember Amos? Aye. Councilmember Hall? Aye. Councilmember Peterson? Aye. Councilmember McQuillan? Aye. Motion passed unanimously. We will now go on to initial general public comment. I had two speakers sign up by 5 o'clock p.m. today. If there is anybody in the room that wanted to speak on the public hearing for the Mantua Hills Swimming Association, second general public comment which is under section number eight on the agenda so I'm gonna go ahead and call the two speakers first the first speaker is William Ford

William Fordpublic commentThank you, council members and Mayor Reed for the opportunity. I thought we were going to have the real hearing tonight, but I'll go ahead and give my two cents and I'll give it again later. here. My wife and I, I'm William Ford, my wife Carol and I live at 3425 Preservation Drive. We've been residents of Fairfax from 2013 and from Pickett's Reserve from 2018. So our home is about 150 to 200 feet from the lap pool and roughly the same distance to the nearest tennis court in the Mantua Swim Club. Our problem with the swim club is and always has been noise. Noise that interferes with our ability to enjoy our outside facilities. Their noise comes from three main things. Club parties in the evenings.

Noise from swim practice and swim meets in the mornings during the summer. And noise from tennis courts all day, every day. So our last four summers when the pools were open, we have been taking from our back deck dozens of measurements of the noise emanating from the swim meets and parties. All of our measurements are above the 55 decibel maximum allowed limit in the City of Fairfax zoning ordinance for residential areas. Most of them are above the 60 decibel limit for commercial areas, and a few of them are above the 72 decibel limit for industrial areas. So it's significant noise. We circulate these measurements to you in a memo. I hope you have a chance to look at it. In stating that the special use permit is compliant with zoning audits,

staff has obviously neither measured nor taken into account the excessive noise. emanating from the club. We complained to the swim club numerous times about excessive noise with swim meets and parties. We have phoned the police several times about the noise. The swim club will occasionally mute the party noise, but normally they just ignore us or hang up on us. They blame the swim meet noise on others over which they have no control. I don't know how that works. The Fairfax City police tend to believe it's a county problem, since the club is located in the county. The county police, we think, have responded on a party noise once, but long after the party ended. So,

Brooke Hardinstaffby voiceyou know, it takes time.

William Fordpublic commentOur neighbors who live closer to the tennis courts complain about the loud talk, the yelling, and the profanity that comes from the courts. They're used by people who often whoop it up. They like to party. The club does not enforce the current rules. Just yesterday, tennis courts were at use at 6.30 in the morning. They're often in use long after closing hours. The club does not effectively control that. We've had real problems, continuous noise. So I'll ask each of you, would you be okay with being woken up at 6 in the morning by swimmers yelling and hooting while getting revved up for competition? Would you be okay with people bouncing tennis balls off the side of your house at 6 o'clock every morning?

That's really what's at stake for residents in the city of Fairfax. So those are the consequences. We don't allow yard work noise at 6 a.m. because it's noisy. Why is it okay for the club to make noise? So we respectively ask you not to approve the special. Thank you.

ShinaberryclerkOur second speaker is Ahmed Al-Razi.

Ahmed Al-Razipublic commentCan you guys hear me? Good evening, mayor and members of council. My name is Ahmed Arrazi, and I live in Manassas. I have spoken on gun violence before councils in Manassas and Louisville, Kentucky. Tonight, I want to bring one practical idea to Fairfax. I should say where I stand. I'm an advocate for the Constitution and the Second Amendment. I am a gun owner, and I open carry. And as someone who has a law degree and works in the legal field, I take the law very seriously. I know where I can carry my gun and where I may not. And tonight, my firearm is at home because this building is strictly gun-free, and I respect that. To me, protecting the Second Amendment and preventing gun violence go together.

Responsible ownership means caring about the guns that end up in the wrong hands. Firstly, I want to say thank you. This council has already done what state law allows in public spaces. In 2021, you kept firearms out of city buildings and parks. And last October, you voted unanimously to extend that to city-permitted events. But those rules stop at the front door. Many gun deaths happen at home through suicide, accidents, and domestic violence, often with a gun that is loaded, unlocked, or no longer wanted. Fredericksburg, sorry if I said that incorrectly, has an answer. Since 2014, its police department has held an annual gun give-back program. People bring in firearms they no longer want. questions asked and can leave with a free gun lock. More than 260 firearms have been turned in.

This year, Virginia made that idea statewide. A new law sponsored by delegate Josh Cole requires every city police department to set up a give back or sell back program by January 1st of 2028. Returned guns are destroyed and the identity of anyone who turns one in stays confidential. This idea also works elsewhere. In the United Kingdom, Police run surrender campaigns on the same principle. They make it easy, they make it free, and people will take part, and people took part. So my request is simple. Don't wait for the deadline. I ask council to direct the city manager and the police department to report back within 60 days on two things. First, holding the city's first gun give back event in 2027 rather than 2028.

Secondly, free gun locks at the police department and city facilities. I can tell you that neither step takes anything from people like me both give people a safe choice They do not have today. I have provide I will be providing my written proposal to the clerk And lastly I want to say god bless, Virginia God bless the united states of america and god bless the constitution. Thank you very much and have a good evening

ShinaberryclerkWe can move on to the consent agenda

Catherine ReadAre there any questions on any of the item and items on the consent agenda? are there any items council would like pulled from the consent agenda okay is there a motion to approve the consent agenda councilmember Hall I

Stacy Hallmove to approve the consent agenda items 6a through B as present as presented October 27 2026 and the accompanying motions in the staff reports

Catherine Readsecond emotions been made by councilmember Hall and seconded by councilmember Peterson a roll call vote

Shinaberryclerkcouncil member McQuillan aye council member Bates aye council member Peterson aye council member Hall aye council member Amos aye motion passed unanimously we will move on to our second general public comment period is there anybody in the room that would like to make a general public comment yep you may come forward just make sure you state your name and street address

Leah M.public commentGood evening. My name is Leah M. And I'm from 3437 Preservation Drive. And I'm here to support with Bill. Our house is three houses down from where he is. It's been about seven years since we moved into the community. When we first moved in, we heard some loud and noises coming from into a clubhouse. And we really had no clue what it was about. Until we talked to a couple of other residents. and we came to realize that they have a clubhouse, they're very active with swimming and all that. So as a parent of three raising children, them doing all the clubs, swim meets, those are all acceptable, and it didn't really affect us as much as it affects bills because they're right behind it. However, during the COVID, many students,

they were out there late at night, midnight pass, a lot of graffiti. had to call police several times. Clubs, the lights would not even go off. And our bedroom, our main bedroom faces back of, I guess, the actual tennis court. So here and there, we had some issues as well. Even our basement door was cracked by a tennis ball running into our backyard. So with knowing all that and now hearing this might affect seven days a week with they're asking, yes, I do not want to get up on weekends, especially. Weekdays, yes, we do get up early to get ready for the work, but on weekends, for me to hear them at 6 a.m. playing and all the noises that could affect, I really ask that this could be not passed at all.

So thank

Rachel McQuillenyou.

ShinaberryclerkIs there anybody else in the room that would like to speak tonight?

Ahmed Al-Razipublic commentGood morning. I

Speaker 5reside in 3437 preservation drive. As Leah, my wife mentioned, we moved

Ahmed Al-Razipublic commentback in 2019,

Speaker 5moving to the city where we thought we would get some privacy. I do believe that active club has a lot of different noises. However, numerous times I wrote an email to the swim club president, regards to the lightning, regards to people or swimming beyond 10 o'clock literally. Light is on 24 by 7. Screaming is happening beyond 2 o'clock in the morning. But this morning even the 7 o'clock is a start time, guess what? They start playing pickleball, whatever they're doing, at 5 in the morning, okay? I do understand that everybody has their things to do. However, we as owner, we made investment and we investment for Park City where we pay taxes. But however, we also need to get some privacy as well, right?

But we're not getting any privacy whatsoever because my windows are getting shattered. You see people just trespassing at midnight. They're coming. They're riding cars to do whatever they need. County police don't really care. And even the president of the Mantoor doesn't really care. You know why? Because it's none of your business to call police. That's their response. help this at place where we would like to take us enjoy night, maybe this in the morning. Because you know what? Seven days a week at six o'clock in the morning, I would like to invite you guys over to my house. If you don't work early in the morning, I want to hear the pickleball or tennis ball or screaming. At six in the morning, past midnight where you'll be,

like you're in a football stadium, right? You see the light on. They're tampering. to fix that problem. So please, please, we hope that you guys vote against this request by the mentor because it's very inconvenient for people who live in the preservation drive where we bought the property to have a relax at night so that we could go to sleep peacefully, not hearing the forfanity beyond our past midnight. Thank you.

ShinaberryclerkIs there anybody else in the room that would like to speak?

Catherine ReadAll right, then. I will now recess the regular meeting to go into a work session. We will stay in the council chambers. Ms. Shinaberry, what is our first work session item?

ShinaberryclerkOur work session item tonight is a pre-application briefing on a request of Oxhill Companies to discuss the redevelopment of 10501-10523 Main Street. recognize albert frederick or city planner for the staff presentation

Albert Frederickstaffgood evening this is a pre-application briefing on a potential development proposal for 10501, 10515, and 10523 Main Street. The briefing is the first step in the current land use review procedure adopted in 2020 and intended to advise council of interest in developing property in the city. Just a quick overview. This differs from a work session in that no land use applications have been filed. The submission materials are not especially detailed. This presentation will be relatively brief and primarily for informational purposes. Any applicant is here this evening to discuss the proposal and as well as answer any questions you may have. At this point, the potential applicant has met with staff and received very high-level feedback.

back. So the again the property is located on Main Street on the south side of Main Street west of West Street north of Page Avenue and east of Judicial Drive. It contains three lots of 1.78 acres. If you're familiar with the site it's a former property for Wells Fargo, a restaurant and existing office building the property is located in the small area plan with activity center place type designation and the property was rezoned in July of 2023 to commercial urban in the transition overlay district so I try attention to the map before you on the left side of the screen is the future land use designation of activity center place type and the right side of the screen has zoning designation of commercial urban the plan was approved

in 2023 the 20 the 23 plan I consisted of 79 residential units with a density of 44 drilling units an acre approximately 37,000 square feet of office space including a bank of the drive-thru facility roughly 7800 square feet of retail and restaurant space with structured parking approximately 310 parking spaces and the building was approved at eight stories and measuring around 94 feet the proposal here tonight the concept plan proposes to increase the number of residential units resulting in an increase in density the space while reducing the amount of office space and the number of parking spaces. The building's height is proposed at approximately 98 feet and seven stories. So here's the concept plan showing the site layout roughly 85 condominium

units with 22,000 square feet of office space and a bank of the drive-through The drive-through is to the rear of the building. The applicant is proposing to have restaurant space about 8,200 square feet on the eastern end of the building, fronting on Main Street, with two levels of structured parking under the building with approximately 224 parking spaces. The applicant has provided connections along Main Street and along the west side of the property. creating a pedestrian pathway, as well as the applicants providing a vehicle access from Main Street and from West Street. So the street location remains the same from the previous plan. Part of the site is in the city and well, it's mainly in the city and then the access

drive for east uh the east west road is within the county the applicant is looking to also provide landscaping on main street as well as the connector road and the east west road the image i'll show next kind of gives you a better view of the property boundaries and you'll see where the east west road runs through the Connie parcel I'm missing a slide so apologize for that so I'll kind of guide you here so the parcel line is roughly in this area here if you can follow my cursor it runs roughly like that so in order to get into the site the access drive crosses the applicant will need to coordinate with Fairfax County and also receive approvals from the county so here's a image of the north elevation image of

the south elevation and the east and west end of the building so that is is looking to make revisions on the on the appearance of the building so they would be amending the Board of Architecture review plans from 2023 and so there's a number of applications that they would would be providing as well and I'll get to those and slide or two from now so in terms of the comments that were received from Planning Commission that range from on-site affordable dwelling units would be critical for this application the previous approval there was a request for off-site units and so one of the comments from Planning Commission is that ADUs on site would be would be very important for this application one question came up is what was the public

additional height height comparison to existing areas would be helpful to understand how it matches with the existing buildings in the surrounding area what is the status of the road please providing the updates on with the county and discuss any proximity to the historic buildings and how this building relate to the existing historic buildings to the east screening is very critical for the site as well as what are the setbacks in the TOD and a few other comments range dealing with traffic mitigation measures as well as provide additional perspectives on the site and surrounding area and then finally the comment was about the viability of the project based on current market conditions so those questions were actually mainly targeted

towards the applicant's representative and the applicant our representative would be able to discuss that with city council tonight in terms of what would be required going forward the applicant would need to amend the general development plan amend the proffers and provide a major certificate of appropriateness for architecture and landscaping and there may be additional applications for a special use permit and as well as some special exceptions for heightened density and then of course if the applicant is choosing to modify the ADU ordinance we would need to have an application for a modification to section 3.9 of the zoning ordinance so I'll stand by for any questions you may have and the applicant is here to answer any

questions thank you

Catherine Readthank you for the presentation questions for staff or

Thomas Petersonthe

Catherine Readapplicant councilmember Peterson

Thomas Petersonthanks a couple of quick questions the transportation impact work that would happen next is that my understanding as

Albert FrederickstaffAs a part of the application, we would receive an updated TIS. So, yes, they would need to submit a traffic and exit. That's correct.

Thomas PetersonGreat. And then could you elaborate a little bit more? You mentioned the off-site affordable housing approach. Can you just explain a little bit more what's involved in that?

Albert FrederickstaffSure. So the applicant is required to provide a minimum of 6% for ADUs on-site. and the previous application of the applicant was looking to provide off-site ADUs, and that requires a modification. So in that modification, it's something that would come before council to receive approval of that. It's not an automatic modification. It's something that the applicant would need to seek and provide justification for that, and typically we have not had any applications for an off-site ADU. So it's an additional step in the process, and that's something that the applicant would need to come forward with. And I'm sure the applicant will be able to provide more information as to why they would need to seek a modification if they so desire.

Thomas PetersonThanks. And just offhand, do we know, is that an even exchange or a better-than-even exchange in terms of the number of ADUs that would occur?

Albert FrederickstaffThat is something that we have not dealt with, but you can maybe ask the applicant to see what they have in mind.

AlexanderstaffGreat.

Thomas PetersonOkay, I'll look forward to additional questions. Thanks. Councilmember Hull?

Stacy HallI think most of my questions are probably applicant as opposed to staff.

Albert FrederickstaffThank you.

Catherine ReadAny other questions for staff before we move on to applicant questions? Just asking,

Albert Frederickstaffor are we just, are we good? Okay.

Catherine ReadThe applicant is up. Council Member Hall.

Stacy HallThank you. So it looks like we dropped, I'm sorry, we went up in units, but there's less parking. Is that less parking for residents, or is that due to a decrease in office space primarily? What was the rationale for that?

Bob BrandtapplicantCertainly. Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Hall, Madam Mayor, members of Council. Bob Brandt with the law firm of Walsh Colucci on behalf of Ox Hill Companies tonight. The reduction in parking, Council Member Hall, was primarily as a result of the reduction of commercial space in the building. Under the original approval, and I think Mr. Frederick had these numbers up here, there was approximately 44,600 square feet of commercial space. Office, the bank, the retail restaurant component of this, we've reduced that to about 32,000 square feet. And so the required parking has gone down somewhat significantly, but we've right-sized it. The original approval was actually significantly over parked there were I think three and a half or four levels of below grade parking.

One of the driving forces of this amendment application is to make sure the building is economically viable. And so as you can imagine, it's very expensive to build below grade parking. And so what we are proposing is in line with the zoning ordinance. We do meet the minimum ordinance requirements, but we've we've done away with some of the surplus of parking that was previously proposed.

Stacy HallOkay. Yeah, we are well aware of the underground parking costs. Yes. What is the plan for the bedroom mix here? Do you have any idea what one, two, three bedrooms you're looking for?

Bob BrandtapplicantPrimarily ones and twos is what we are looking at right now. There may be a small number of three-bedroom units in the building, but predominantly ones and twos.

Stacy HallAnd that's different than before, right? Weren't they going to be two and three larger condos?

Bob BrandtapplicantThere were larger condominium units, and again, one of the driving forces of this project is to make sure it's economically viable. One of the things that the applicant has learned from market analysis is that the units as previously proposed were a little bit larger than they probably should be. And so we've reduced the number of units. That's in part the way we are increasing the total number of units is by reducing the size of them. So, again, they'll primarily be ones and twos, although we are continuing to refine the unit mix.

Stacy HallOkay. And so it looks like it's higher now, but you took out a floor. What's the rationale for that?

Bob BrandtapplicantCorrect. So the building is approximately four feet higher than what it was previously. In fact, I was going through the materials this evening, and that seven stories might be a little bit of a misnomer. There's a there's a ground floor level on the west side of the building It's probably along Main Street goes down from east to west And so I don't know that we necessarily in our initial materials picked up that ground level So it's going to be the same number of stories the same exact number of stories that was previously proposed But the additional space the additional four feet comes out of the need to provide a little bit more clearance between the the floors and so that total number of feet has crept up about four feet but

the number of stories remains the same

Stacy Hallokay

Bob Brandtapplicantwe'll make sure to correct that with the submission and

Stacy HallI'm not sure if I can ask this question but what what are you expecting the selling price of these units to be roughly is that something you can answer that

Bob Brandtapplicantthat's a great question at this point in time we don't we don't really have that information we'll need to get through this process get through the site plan get through the construction phase so it's a bit further out I think as we go through this process we might be a little bit answer for you, Councilmember Hall, but at this point we're not sure. I will say though, and this is the case now as it was back in 2023 when this project was approved, these will be higher end units. We are targeting that higher end luxury market and so that's one of the things that we're carrying forward through with this amendment.

Stacy HallOkay, so they still are planning to be more luxury units?

Bob BrandtapplicantCorrect.

Stacy HallOkay, and I do recognize the ADU situation is difficult there at the affordable dwelling. Doesn't mean it's not possible. They certainly don't want units to sit empty because they can't be afforded. And I think the unit cost could probably be managed. But I think as we all know, well, I don't. I never lived in a condo. But all the HOA and the maintenance fees and all those things, granted, it's not, you know, you're not talking Hawaii with a lot of luxury landscape and things, but it still could be very costly.

Bob BrandtapplicantYes. And that's one of the challenges that we're working to navigate. Councilmember Peterson, you asked about, you know, are we still proposing off-site ADUs? We heard feedback from the Planning Commission. I think we're hearing feedback from Council right now. That's something that we're looking at. But to your point, Councilmember Hall, you know, there will be some challenges here of providing these truly as affordable units, given the fact that there will be amenities, private amenities, for these future condominium residents. And, you know, in condominium associations, homeowners associations, there's monthly assessments. That's one of the that's one of the issues we're working through right now

We understand and appreciate that. It's the Planning Commission. I think the city's desire to see affordable dwelling units wherever possible That's just one of the tricky things that we're gonna have to work through here But we hear we heard the feedback from the Planning Commission loud and clear and I think we're hearing that this evening as well

Stacy HallOkay Visually, it's interesting. I will say I think It certainly has some perks over some other units that we've seen it does feel a little wall and it might just be some of the coloring choices that are being shown on here so i just would pay attention to that as you kind of go forward it looks a little it looks very commercial i will say i think um and i just think there could be some additional colors or highlights or things that might make it a little bit more attractive and welcoming and actually i do have a staff question i'm sorry to skip over it before i understand we don't just buy land from the county at will or at whim but places like this where it's such a close line has that do those conversations occur I know it's challenging for property

owners to own something that's both in the city and the county the

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voicecity does it as does the count we do occasionally buy property from the county I don't believe the county has ever offered or we have ever proposed buying any of the judicial complex since that's jurisdictionally in the county still. So it's a little complicated. But the short answer is, I mean, as you probably know, if there's a market for it, anything's for sale.

Stacy HallYeah. I just wondered sometimes if that conversation over certain properties would make sense for property owners to have a little less drama.

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voiceWe also do, and we have done in the past, we've done boundary line adjustments as necessary between the city and the county to try to move the line. We still have some interesting

Stacy Hallareas

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voicein the city that need some adjustment, but we have in the past

Stacy Hallyeah they're well door knocking there's a very interesting one off of school street where the first four houses on George Mason our city then you go into the neighborhood whole neighborhood except for one single house is County and the house that you think it would be because it's directly behind the other ones is not it's the one that's like across the street and down to very very bizarre so yes who drew them

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voicewe have a bunch of them I mean we have a whole row of stores in a shopping center that are half in the county and half in the city so yes

Stacy Hallwe do okay thank you

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voicethank you

Stacy Hallcouncilmember

Catherine ReadMcQuillan

Rachel McQuillencould you tell us since we're talking about the architecture design what changed from the previous version features you know that were retained or removed or simplified and then why yeah

Bob Brandtapplicantso that's a great question there was a lot of discussion back in 2023 when we were going through this process about the previous design, I think it's fair to characterize it as it was it was polarizing. There was a lot of brick, which we are still carrying forward a significant amount of brick, but the building was starker, I think is the way I would characterize it. We are now working with a new architect. Oxhill has brought on some new people with a new vision and so the idea with this with this concept that you see, which is still a work in progress, is to make it look like something that's a little bit more Fairfax and so we are working through actively in fact one of the things that my client just whispered in my ear is we are working through the color pattern

for these bricks we are looking to make sure that it's more compatible with the surrounding area with the existing historic courthouse right next door but we've taken a very different design approach I wish I had submitted a side by side comparison of the old versus the new I'll make sure that we do that in future work sessions but the overall intent of this architecture is to make that is more appropriate here in Fairfax. I think we want to make sure that it still looks like a building of its time, 2026. We don't want to mimic or copy the historic character of the buildings in the surrounding area, but we've really made an attempt and we're continuing to refine it to make sure it fits in here.

So Councilmember Hall, you said it looks commercial. The ground floor of the building will be a commercial use across the entire frontage of Main Street. And so it wants to have that storefront appearance, particularly if you're looking at this image on the left-hand side. That's where the restaurant will be. We want to have that commercial presence on the ground floor, but also that residential character above. So we're working through it. There's going to be a Certificate of Appropriateness Amendment filed with this. We'll work through the BAR. We'll come back to Council. But this is good feedback.

Rachel McQuillenOkay, thank you. Yeah, I would like to see a little bit more work done on the softening. I recognize the location of this property. really it's very close to our courthouse in our old historic area and I think it does need a little bit more work to look like it would fit in that location I do like the varying height levels and the different roof lines I think that helps a lot I think playing with setbacks is good a lot more greenery would go a long way I do have some questions about the green open area sorry I got to go back that there was like a green open area that was going to be used as a park or something and that's now changed

Bob Brandtapplicantcorrect so the image mr frederick just pulled up and he's drawing his cursor around it that's an existing vegetated tree space there at the corner of west and main street that piece is actually owned by fairfax county you're correct when we were going through the process and the project that we got approved in 2023 showed a a corner park a pocket park at that in that space we had worked with the county on that we had advanced the design that was generally acceptable to the county what we know now is that eventually and as you may know the county a few years ago went through a reimagining of its plans for the judicial complex eventually once the county is further along in its development of the judicial complex the county does intend to establish a

essentially from the entrance to the courthouse which is set plan view south on this image directly out to main street at the intersection of west and main and so while they were comfortable with the park the plaza that we had been proposing in 2023 they had made it very clear that once they are ready to get to that phase of their development their intent was to remove that park and establish that direct promenade and so here we are in 2026 three years later we think that instead of putting in a park that ultimately the county potentially would remove and replace with just a pedestrian connection, we think that it's just better to leave that vegetated parcel as it is today. There's trees there.

It's pretty thickly vegetated. And then once the county is ready to move forward with that, we don't know when that will be, five, ten, who knows, fifteen years, they'll have the opportunity to do that without removing an amenity that I think people would fall in love with. And so we are no longer proposing that corner park, but ultimately the future of that parcel is really in the hands of the county.

Rachel McQuillenOkay. Thank you for explaining that. And then how much of a reduction of commercial space was that?

Bob BrandtapplicantApproximately, I believe it was approximately 12,000 square feet. The original was, my math is a little rusty, 44,600 approximately was under the original approval. And we are now at about 32,000 square feet. Most of that is office space. We right-sized, we think, the amount of office space that was appropriate for this building. I will say that there has been a slight uptick in the amount of restaurant and retail. Under the original approval, that number was just over 7,700, and we are just under 8,200 square feet of restaurant and retail space now.

Rachel McQuillenOkay, and this is a question for staff then. Do we know what that decrease in commercial means for the city? I recognize that there's no use occurring at that location right now, but based off of that do we know what

Stacy Hallthat

Rachel McQuillenoverall means sure

Alexanderstaffso

Albert Frederickstaffwe haven't taken a look at that at this point but that's something that we would definitely evaluate and we would have conversations with our economic development director and her staff going forward and we'll have discussions with the applicant excellent thank you I just want to add a little bit of context for we're talking about the county long-range brown proposal so they're proposing buildings of seven plus stories and you're looking at it we're more than 90 feet so to add some context and there's also no architectural standards or architectural review in the county so and they're also proposing I guess you would say that buildings more or less modernist looking building so So, you know, this clearly could be a buffer between what you possibly could be looking at, which you're totally not.

It's going to change. Yeah,

Rachel McQuillenthank you. I appreciate that. Thank you. So just to provide a little bit of feedback of what I've heard from my residents in my area, building height is always concerning. It's more of the feel versus the actual height itself. And so setback always plays into that. safety concerns regarding how vehicles are going to enter how pedestrians are going to move around that site infrastructure costs and I think that's and then just basic how it's going to affect the community events that are so close to it those are the biggies that I was hearing and that's all thank you so much for answering all my questions thank

Bob Brandtapplicantyou

Anthony Amoscouncilmember McCullin appreciate it

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Amos

Anthony Amosthank you very much so going into what I like the east-west road connection I'm sure all of us like that the pedestrian infrastructure the retail increase I do appreciate and I also recognize the the difficulty of funding office right now especially from an investor lender standpoint so that I understand I'm going to open up with two questions for staff and then the rest are towards the applicant I'm sure you're used to that at this point firstly with the parking spaces the reduction the 224 is any of that impacted or expected to be impacted if we were to approve the zoning text amendments does that apply to a site like this

Catherine Readlooks like we're phoning a friend

Albert Frederickstaffyeah I was gonna say kind of fun a friend

Speaker 8you know in our now our initial analysis I think our numbers would be a little lower than what's required today. The site is in the transition of early district and has a benefit of a reduction already. I think what it will come down to is what the developer thinks is needed to satisfy the commercial demands and that of the specifics of the condos. They may actually propose more spaces than what the new ordinance would even require.

Anthony AmosI understand from a marketing standpoint you don't want to go too low. I just wanted to know what if their minimum would potentially change with the text amendments

Speaker 8It could if they went into that new district This is more of a proffered plan amendment that would potentially be able to make use of The underlying zoning that already exists, which is a little bit different But I think we're going to compare how the new district would Work in this situation may be a benefit to going to the new district But still up in there until the districts approved.

Anthony AmosThank you question, going back to what the Planning Commission's comments were regarding the on-site ADU versus the off-site, and this is directed towards staff, are there any concerns from staff about taking that approach with it being precedent setting or applying to other projects? How do we feel about that?

Brooke Hardinstaffby voiceThanks. Thank you, Mayor. So thank you for asking that question. And just to clarify some of the earlier discussion, there is a modification process, as Mr. Frederick noted, that allows council to contemplate adjustments to the requirements for affordable dwelling units. Off-site affordable dwelling units are not a part of the modification process. And so that is not a consideration that Planning Commission or Council could make on a case-by-case basis with an individual application. To consider off-site units would require an amendment to the zoning ordinance, amendment to the administrative regulations for the program, as well as the memorandum of understanding with Fairfax County for administration of those units.

So, a similar proposal was made with the original application for off-site units since that wasn't something that the city could legally accept. The council at the time deferred that portion of the application, ultimately deferred for a year. The city council at the time had multiple conversations in the intervening year about potentially amending the ordinance to accommodate that. that decided not to include that and so the applicant withdrew that modification request and so if the applicant if the potential applicant does move forward with an application it would have to either fall within the parameters of what modifications allow or again the council would need to consider amendments to the zoning ordinance the administrative regulations and the

memorandum of understanding to consider off-site units so just wanted to make sure that was clear I think this gets discussed from time to time and so if you have any questions on that I'm happy to answer those now as well because I just want to make sure this is very clear in everyone's minds what what the parameters are that we're working I

Anthony Amoswas going to jump to the applicant but if folks have questions on that feel free to go first

Thomas Petersoncouncilmember Peterson if you could just then maybe clarify a little bit with the where things stand right now in terms of the modifications that are contemplated

Brooke Hardinstaffby voiceso the modifications that were originally proposed with the with the application that was approved with what the entitlement of the property is now that That application was withdrawn by the applicant, and so the application as approved provides on-site units for, I believe it's five units were required based on the number of units proposed, and that's what the current entitlement includes.

Thomas PetersonAnd I think my, thank you very much. I think my question is, is there, I think I heard that there is possibly some sort of modifying flexibility around the existing requirements that is on-site versus off-site. Did I not

Brooke Hardinstaffby voicehear that correctly? That is correct. So other aspects of the regulations, and I'm just kind of off the top of my head, there are requirements regarding the size of units that are affordable as compared to the size units that are market rate. There are requirements regarding how the units that are affordable are interspersed within the development compared to the market rate units. Those types of aspects are items that can be considered for modification. And so there's flexibility in what can be delivered. but again it the the language of the ordinance requires that they all be maintained on site

Thomas Petersonand are any of those at this stage contemplated those within site modifications or is that we're not at that state we're

Brooke Hardinstaffby voicenot not at that stage yes sir

Catherine Readother questions back to you councilmember Amos okay

Anthony Amosso going to the applicant kind of to build off that so if I can get a bit more of the narrative on so what about the market is different that you feel makes this project more viable including by extension the adu as

Bob Brandtapplicantwell what is your approach sure so I think things have changed in the market fairly significantly since 2023 you

Shinaberryclerkknow

Bob Brandtapplicantinterest rates are not moving in the the best direction construction costs labor costs everything is everything's more difficult more expensive and so Part of, again, the driving force of this application, potential application, is right-sizing the building. Smaller units, the right amount of commercial space. The ADUs are just part of that calculation, right? And so we're taking all of this feedback into consideration at this point. We want to make sure that whatever we're coming forward with is a viable project because the city has been waiting for this project for three years. frankly we've been waiting for this project for three years but it's become clear to us that we need to do something we need to make these changes that we're

coming forward with in order to move forward and so I think that's something that we're very much aligned with most folks in the city wanting to make sure that something happens on this site

Anthony Amosand I suspect the additional unit counts will help with that as well certainly will my last comment to you regarding the green space that councilmember McQuillan reference with the corner park I'm very disappointed to hear has been removed and frankly you're already coordinating with the county on the east-west roads at Addis is I feel like you can also coordinate with them on the pedestrian infrastructure and that outdoor space so I would like you to keep that in mind as you move forward thank you thank you

Catherine Readother questions or comments councilmember Peterson so

Albert Frederickstaffthe

Thomas Petersonapplication or the discussion here contemplates pedestrian use but tell us about bikes what you envision and what sort of plans and accommodations would possibly be in place and I think the note I would have here is as it stands right now there's not much setback so it's a pretty narrow slice between the building really busy road and the question is what about bikes where do they go how do you deal with all that

Bob Brandtapplicantcertainly so the the project will be subject to the city zoning ordinance requirements for bicycle parking and so there will be bicycle parking provided in the building as I believe there was under the original approval that that sidewalk in the front of the building councilmember Peterson is 10 feet wide that's a requirement of the transition overlay district and so theoretically that's a wide sidewalk it could potentially be wide enough to serve both bicycles and pedestrians. I don't know that the city's multimodal transportation plan envisions any bicycle lanes on Main Street. To your point, it's a well-trafficked area. I don't know that there's any bike lanes envisioned there, but we certainly will be providing the required bicycle parking on-site

as well as that generous 10-foot-wide sidewalk out front to potentially accommodate both bicycles and pedestrians.

Thomas PetersonAnd if I could just ask staff to weigh in a little bit, Is there any expectation or plan for something additional that might happen in this area to accommodate bike use, the establishment of a more formal bike path here? It sounds like we've got a 10-foot-wide, essentially, sidewalk at this stage. Is the expectation that that's used by bikes, or is the expectation is that there's going to be some sort of improvement to better accommodate that?

Speaker 8I'm not aware of any specific transportation improvement project through that section. that section of Main Street to Judicial Drive has been looked at at a cursory level over the years to see if there is any room for improvement. There are some constraints there with the bridge near the cemetery and some other areas with very close setbacks of buildings that preclude good creative options. The county had been looking at improved pedestrian and bike connections throughout their facility as they reprogram some of the streets and the sidewalks there. But I think in this situation, certainly the code required 10-foot minimum, and I'll use the word minimum there, is what we would be looking for, which is sort of an older standard

and had anticipated over the years that it was a shared surface between bikes and pedestrians, maybe not the most hospitable thing when you're right against the road to put cyclists and pedestrians together. We don't see that a lot. throughout Old Town in the historic core. You really don't see a lot of cyclists on the sidewalks there, though, but we do have Sharrows and are moving towards the shared lanes. But I'm not familiar with any road diet or other types of projects on that stretch of Main Street.

Thomas PetersonOkay. I think that's something worth keeping an eye on, if necessary, maybe consulting with the transportation group a bit about. I would love to get a little bit more on that. Okay.

Anthony AmosThanks. Thank you.

Thomas PetersonCouncil member Hall

Stacy Hallthank you just one more question community benefit other than providing a different housing stock that is not readily accessible here I think you know given what you're doing what else is is that the city getting for this they're not going to have the park anymore are there any other benefits or perks that we're getting

Bob BrandtapplicantI think the commitment to a very of commercial space is a significant benefit and I would agree I acknowledge that it's admittedly a little bit less than what was previously proposed but unlike some other projects that have come forward in the city the entirety of this ground floor of this building with the exception of the residential lobby some residential many areas the entirety of the building on the ground floor facing Main Street is going to be commercial use the financial institution the restaurant the retail space that's a significant benefit there There was a question earlier about the height, and I forget if that was Councilmember Hall or Councilmember Peterson, but what is the justification for the additional height?

And I think Mr. Frederick hit the nail on the head. The county has plans to build some very tall buildings directly behind this, directly to the south of this. There's already a very tall county parking garage that the property backs up to today. And so that height that we are proposing, that 98 feet height, that's going to provide a pretty significant screen or buffer to what the county may build down the road. We have no control. We and the city have no control over what the county builds, what the buildings look like. I think it's probably a fair assumption that they're going to be fairly utilitarian government office buildings of some sort. And so by working through the city's architectural review process, Councilmember McQuillen,

work to do on the architecture but we have an opportunity here to put a building there that's attractive that fits in that is compatible with old town Fairfax and so I think that's inherently one of the benefits here

Stacy Hallyeah I appreciate that I actually didn't realize the county doesn't have any sort of BAR or other or do they have something they do okay

Speaker 8they have something and I served on it for 11 years I was chair for three years it is only in historic districts which they don't include uh this specific area had made a recommendation before i left they put the courthouse in a historic district but it's interesting

Stacy Halland building that old would not be in their historical district yes yes um i do say we also have our eda director here i don't mean to put you on the spot but do you have anything to offer with regard to the commercial and the conversation you

Leah M.public commentdo thank you

Speaker 2thank you councilmember i would just add that as as staff haven't had a chance to look at the an actual application and do any sort of specific analysis so I'll stick to the comments that have made before that I continue to be concerned that we are seeing a total loss of commercial space while we have a sub 10 vacancy rate in the city meaning we have pent up demand and we're losing commercial space so less commercial space in an area where we have commercial demand means fewer tax paying businesses period so that continues to be a concern for this and every project that comes before the city individual project economics aside we will need to do an analysis but I continue to be concerned that we have a pipeline of businesses and we continue

to see applications that are removing or reducing commercial space in the city

Stacy HallI would agree with that. Thank you very much. Councilmember Bates.

Billy BatesThank you. So, looking at what's before us, of course, what it's worth, since I won't be here, you know, when this is considered, but the architecture appears very angular, very modern. what we arrived at last time I felt was a bit more you know a bit more rounded a bit softer a bit a bit more traditional felt like it kind of incorporated elements of the existing older not this work courthouse but the older you know courthouse and jail buildings as well as the adjacent office buildings and so you know not a big fan of the direction that's gone in and it is you know just to point out about two stories above the recommended height women in the small area plan and you know I think that what we talked about last time was the justification for that was you know yes

It is introducing a type of housing that we don't really have much or really any of in the city, but also the significant amount of brand-new upscale commercial space that was going to be introduced. But here, you know, that's decreased by about 30 percent. And again, in terms of housing, you know, it is, I suppose, a contribution to the housing stock. It is very, very upscale housing and, you know, not a fan of not requiring all the ADUs on site here, but, you know, how affordable are those really is kind of the other question. I would like to see, you know, if there is, as an aside, an opportunity to set up perhaps a fund or some way of alleviating the HOA or condo association fees that, you know,

they would be subject to, you know, that would be paid into by the developer. But other than that, really this is kind of a no-go for me compared to what we previously approved. You know, I think it's really kind of a big step in the wrong direction. Anyway, so again, for two stories above eight stories total, we'd really need to see, I think, significant justification for that. Anyway, that's how I'm feeling about it right now. Thanks.

Anthony AmosThank you.

Catherine ReadOther feedbacks? Council Member Peterson.

Thomas PetersonI would like to echo some of those concerns, but also the points raised by our economic development director. One of the big concerns I have about this is the shrinkage of commercial at a time when we need to do just the opposite and would really appreciate looking more carefully at that and seeing some alternate configurations that might address that. And on the height issue, I agree. I think that just because Fairfax County is building taller buildings doesn't necessarily mean this should be of equal height. We have our own considerations here. So those are two really top things that would really urge us to, you know, be able to examine on thanks thank you

Catherine Readany other questions comments of staff or applicant I guess that just leaves me you know the height in this location I don't think is as much of a problem for two reasons because it is surrounded by commercial and the buildings on the judicial complex there's also no residential neighbors to complain bottom line I don't think you're gonna have neighbors coming to complain about how tall the building is so for me height is not the issue as far as the commercial space you know it is difficult to predict what the future will hold and I understand that adding commercial space which may go empty is not a financial risk that the property owner wants to make I get that but looking at this this this just this aerial of the conceptual plan we are

still a city of asphalt parking lots and buildings built in the 60s 70s and 80s we are a city of class b and c office space so even though these mixed-use projects are smaller space it's newer space it's quality space people want new quality space i believe and just like our single family neighborhoods many of them the majority of them were built post-world war ii i mean that's our and there's just a life expectancy to buildings and I think we as a city need to embrace the fact that when buildings come to their useful end something else has to be done and and so decisions have to be made and somebody said last night a young man in the Planning Commission said don't let perfection be the enemy

of good in the fact that a younger generation is looking for something The average age in the city, I believe, is 38, and yet we don't hear a lot of commentary from 38-year-olds. And so I think we have to be open to what is brought to us as a project and understand that we can't predict whether there's going to be a boom in needing commercial space or there won't be. But there are financial risks involved in building anything. and trying and I do understand building retail and commercial without knowing who the tenants are going to be when you're trying to also sell condominiums in the building as well that is a tremendous amount of risk so I just I hope everyone understands that sometimes we just can't have all the things but

I'm looking at a lot of asphalt parking lots in this city that could be something else could produce something else could be a reimagined to the sort that the next generation, I think, are looking to move toward. So I look forward to the next iteration of this submission.

Chris SmithapplicantThank you.

William Fordpublic commentI

Chris Smithapplicanthave Chris Smith with Oxo Companies. I just wanted to clarify something. The three buildings that were on the land totaled 17,000 square feet of commercial space. So this plan is doubling the commercial space on the site. Just want to make sure everyone's clear on that. commercial space we're dealing with the market conditions but we're doubling what was on the site before and

Catherine ReadI think that is a very important point so thank you for adding that

Chris Smithapplicantno

Catherine Readyou're absolutely right it's about numbers and math it's more than what it was and it's going to be a different quality from what was there too so again thank you all we look forward to the next submission

Bob Brandtapplicantgreat thank you all for your time and your feedback look forward to it

Catherine Readthank you At this time, I will now reconvene the regular meeting and kick it over to our esteemed City Manager, Mr. Alexander.

AlexanderstaffEvening, Mayor and Council. I'll briefly review our upcoming meeting schedule. On November 5th, we have our Engage Fairfax Community Engagement Session planned, focused on gathering input from community to help inform our FY 2028 budget process. On the 7th, we have our budget work session where we'll review preliminary FY2026 financial results, first quarter FY27, proposed financial policies and budget guidelines, and our FY2028 financial forecast. We'll also discuss potential amendments to the real estate tax relief program for the elderly and disabled. On November 10th, our regular meeting has a fairly full agenda. On consent, we will consider the financial policies and budget guidelines following the November 7th work session,

along with an MOU with Electrify DMV, to offer residents free independent energy coaching, a program that would complement our existing residential energy audit program. We'll also have introductions to proposed amendments to the residential permit parking, Elderly and Disabled Tax Relief Program, and the Charitable Real Estate Tax Exemption for NOVA Labs. We'll have public hearings on the proposed 2027 Legislative Program for pedestrian and sidewalk projects. None of these will require Council action that evening. Two sets of zoning ordinance amendments are also scheduled for public hearings and potential Council action. the amendments related to adopted small area plans, and other

William Fordpublic commentzoning provisions that are included.

AlexanderstaffOn the 17th, we still have the reserve date for a special meeting if needed for the proposed additional 1% sales tax. Our December 1st work session includes discussion of the proposed legislative program, the CIP program for 2028 to 2032, pedestrian and safety plans, and potential reviews and updates to the small area plans. That last discussion is distinct from the November zoning text amendments would address whether and how to revisit the plans broader policy guidance. We'll also review the Q transit development plan, parks, foundation naming rights and community feedback on the Wilcoxon Trail alignment. Finally, on December 8th, the regular meeting includes presentation of the annual financial report on consent.

later program the Q transit development plan Wilcoxon trail alignment following the December 1st work session will also consider temporary extensions to two cable franchise agreements and acceptance of the annual financial report public hearings and potential action are scheduled on the tax relief amendments residential permit parking changes the Nova Labs tax exemption the proposed sale tax ordinance and two land use applications remain tentative December 15th is reserved for special meeting if needed as always this is a working schedule items may change as we move forward and that concludes my review of our upcoming agenda items

Catherine Readcomments or questions councilmember Amos you

Anthony Amosknow looking at it with all the no council action the temp isn't as bad as I thought if my colleagues are open to it the third item on the 10th for the public hearing on the small zoning tax amendments for the small area plans would it be okay if we move that after the transportation projects so just right before the other keep the zoning tax amendments and the together and then do the transportation projects all in one go just because there might be folks showing up for the transportation projects but not for the text amendments pedestrian improvement plan. I know some folks have emailed about the stop sign so it might be good to knock those out first and then do the zoning text amendments. But curious if my colleagues have...

Catherine ReadCouncilmember McQuillen. I

Rachel McQuillenwould support that. That makes sense to me.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Peterson?

Thomas PetersonYeah you switch it from 3 to 7 basically is what you're doing.

Catherine ReadTo 6. Mr. City manager thoughts that's

Alexanderstafffine so I don't see any head nods to the contrary

Catherine Readcouncilmember Bates is that what gonna work yeah okay it seems like we have a plan okay councilmember Hall thank

Stacy Hallyou the email we got about the Avery Park Germantown Road situation with the accidents that occurred recently there light posts being taken down, et cetera. I know they were, they actually messaged me and asked me if we would be able to have this on the agenda for tonight. And I said, agenda's already been done. Can you just tell us kind of where we are on that conversation of, I know it's probably part of the Germantown Road improvements, but that's a while away, I think.

AlexanderstaffYeah, I think we're just starting to look into it. we'll certainly can bring back some information to Council and we can revisit it you know along with some of the items that we talked about it may work into an upcoming work session but I will certainly come back with you to you with some information

Stacy Hallokay and I think if nothing else right now at least maybe some information on what happened that the accident that we have any sort of recovery not recovery um reenactment I guess is the word I was looking for potentially just something that we know happened was it people were drinking or not or just yeah

Alexanderstaffwe'll look into it and bring back more detail to you thank you absolutely

Catherine Readother questions or comments about the agenda council member bates

Billy Batesum so like we talked about before um i know that we have a heavy meeting on the 8th um you know we talked about a special meeting on the 15th but not all of us are available that day. So since we have the tentative special meeting on November 17th, I'd be comfortable with moving whatever is ready ahead of time from the 8th of December to the 17th without objection.

Catherine ReadThoughts on that? Councilmember Hall.

Stacy HallI'm sorry. Are you suggesting moving things from December 8th to November 17th?

Billy BatesYeah, if anything is ready ahead of time.

Stacy HallOkay. I don't have a problem with that, but we wouldn't know that we're having a special meeting until next week. That would still give us enough time to advertise and do all the things. If anything's ready?

Catherine ReadYeah, I think that's why Council Member Bates is bringing it up now.

Stacy Hallbecause the

Catherine Readadvertisement requirement and you're right we won't know until the third whether or not we're having a meeting on the 17th but there is the advertising requirement if we were to move anything up we'd have to be prepared to do that councilmember

Anthony AmosAmos yeah I think that makes sense to me I don't have an issue

Catherine Readcouncilmember O'Quillan

Rachel McQuillenI I would prefer to keep it the way it is just because that's then we're doing within three weeks three meetings and with the budget work session that's seventh that's just a lot of meeting unless there's a reason we need to do it that earlier is it just to make it shorter only

Catherine Readon the eighth I mean it's heavy on the eighth so so I think and I don't want to speak for councilmember base if we have to have a meeting on the 17th we all have to be there if we are going to make an enactment over the 1% we could redistribute some of all of the stuff that's piled on to the last meeting of

Rachel McQuillenthe year okay I understand sorry but you're exciting but then you have to but

Catherine Readyou've got a advertising requirement

Rachel McQuillenunderstood I'm okay with that yeah that makes sense to me if we need to yeah right I see what you're saying now otherwise

Catherine Readit's like pack a snack because the eighth is probably

Rachel McQuillengoing

Catherine Readto run long because of the number of public hearings yeah

Rachel McQuillenI'm following thank you for okay thank you I am I'm in agreement

Catherine ReadSO WE CAN MONITOR THAT TO SEE IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT IS READY TO BE MOVED UP.

AlexanderstaffYEAH, SOME OF THIS IS PREDICATED ON WORK SESSIONS THAT WE'RE DOING ON THE FIRST. CORRECT. AND, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, THE REQUIREMENT TO TURN THIS AROUND FROM KNOWING ON THE THIRD TO THEN ADVERTISE IS, PUTS US AT A CHALLENGE.

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voiceYEAH, AND I GUESS THE QUESTION, I'M SORRY, MAYOR. GO. YES, MR. LOFGAMIN. I GUESS THE QUESTION, THERE ARE OBVIOUSLY SOME LAND USE CASES THAT HAVE REQUIREMENTS. IS THE SUGGESTION, ASSUMING THERE IS CONSENSUS, THAT STAFF CAN REJIGNER THE AGENDAS OR DO WE NEED TO HAVE A VOTE OR A CONSENSUS ON EACH ITEM THAT WE ARE PROPOSING TO MOVE WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT? WE MAY NOT HAVE MEETINGS TO

Catherine ReadDO THAT. I think at this point because of time constraints and advertising issues I think if we can redistribute everything piled on the 8th if there's anything that can be moved up assuming that we have like that a meeting on the 17th anyway to be aware that we should we're gonna we're gonna deal with it on the 8th so I don't know why we wouldn't deal with it on some other meeting if we're gonna deal with this on the 8th so that we're not here until past midnight on the 8th because the other thing is that it holds up people coming to testify at public hearings they're also up with us all night long too so I'm just I think if we're all agreed let the staff assess what might be ready and could meet the requirements after we

know if we're gonna have a meeting on the 17th which will know on the third we we may know I'm the third well

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voiceall

Catherine Readright but let's

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voicejust be positive okay okay they'll have to be a certification but yes I understand what you're saying yes so so we are all agreed

Catherine Readcouncilmember Hall I

Stacy Halljust was gonna say I would much rather do November 17th and have to worry about December 15th I think that one might be a struggle

Catherine Readso right so so let's be as efficient as possible with the remaining time that we have but this the eighth is just crammed full of incredibly important hearings and votes so councilmember Peterson if

Thomas PetersonI'm THE CAVEAT IS WHETHER WE KNOW NOW THAT WE WILL BE READY BECAUSE THERE'S SOME DISCUSSION AND PREPARATION THAT HAPPENS BETWEEN NOW AND THEN IF I'M UNDERSTANDING CORRECTLY AND WE KIND OF NEED TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE CLEAR ON WHERE WE STAND IN ORDER TO DO THIS. IS THAT A FAIR CHARACTERIZATION OF WHAT YOU SAID?

AlexanderstaffI THINK WE CAN LOOK AT SOME OF THE ITEMS THAT WE HAVE ON HERE THAT WE HAVE ALREADY WORK SESSIONED SO TO SPEAK AND THERE MAY BE SOME THAT ARE EASIER THAN OTHERS. THERE'S ALSO AN OPPERITY POTENTIALLY TO DO SOME WORK SESSION ITEMS FROM THE FIRST ON THE 17TH IF THEY'RE READY. AND THAT WOULD FURTHER ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE BURDEN ON THAT DATE.

Catherine ReadYEAH, REDISTRIBUTION, I THINK REDISTRIBUTION IF WE'RE GOING TO BE IN CHAMBERS ANYWAY.

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voiceYEAH, I'M SORRY, THAT'S A TERM OF LEGAL ART.

Thomas PetersonREJIGGER. Well, so I guess as long as that works out, but if we're artificially kind of forcing things that we really shouldn't be doing, that would be a concern to me, and I'd want us to not do that.

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voiceWe will comply with the requirements of law, and we will also make sure that we're not artificially pushing people into boxes that make it difficult for them to do proper presentations.

Catherine ReadRight. and I and some of this is the staff obviously this the staff does a lot of the heavy lifting on these presentations and they have to be ready to do that so you know I look to the staff and to the posting and advertising requirements but if we're going to be here on the 17th just like the idea to move our meeting up an hour there are ways to redistribute this workload with the meetings we have remaining in the year if we don't want to go to December 15th and want to get It sounds like we have consensus Councilmember Bates And

Billy Batesthat was kind of what I'd refer to with the caveat of whatever is ready by then in terms of the legal requirements and staff preparation

Thomas PetersonCouncilmember Bates well, but just to add I agree we don't want to put staff in a box We don't want to put the public in the box either We just want to be sure that there is adequate time for them to be able to be prepared to participate in public hearings, etc. So I wouldn't want any shortchanging happening there.

Brian Lubkemanstaffby voiceAbsolutely. I think the manager would be the first to know we're not proposing to add items to the agenda. These items are all on the futures list and the notifications will comply with applicable law.

Catherine ReadOkay. Do we feel good about this? Okay. So has that completed our discussion on the future meeting topics? If that is true, we will go on to the manager's report out.

AlexanderstaffThank you, Mayor. Nothing additional to report. All

Catherine Readright. So we will now go to council comments. And tonight I'm going to mix it up and start with council member Peterson.

Thomas PetersonWell, thank you. Everybody who is registered to vote, if you haven't already, please make a plan to do that. Over 4,000 people have voted as of yesterday, and it's going really at what might be a record rate. So this is obviously a good sign because democracy depends on participation. We have a very, very generous early voting period in the state of Virginia. There have been lots of accommodations to make that easy and possible for people, so we really encourage everybody to take care of that. EXCUSE ME TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT BUT ALSO IT DEPENDS ON UM VOTER EDUCATION AND PEOPLE MAKING WISE CHOICES THAT UM REQUIRE YOU TO STUDY UP ON WHO'S RUNNING AND WHY SO I WOULD JUST ENCOURAGE EVERYBODY TO DO THAT DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND TAKE

ADVANTAGE OF THE EARLY VOTING ALSO WE'VE GOTTEN A HEAD START ON A BUNCH OF HALLOWEEN EVENTS WHICH IS GREAT TO SEE HERE IN THE CITY BECAUSE IT'S A FESTIVE CITY AND YOU CAN FEEL IT HERE AND SO YOU THAT WILL CONTINUE RIGHT THROUGH THE HOLIDAY. I HOPE EVERYBODY STAYS SAFE AS THEY DO THAT AND HAVE A HAPPY HALLOWEEN. THANK YOU.

Stacy HallCOUNCILMEMBER HALL. WAS NOT EXPECTING TO GO NEXT. WE'RE REALLY SHAKING THINGS UP. I WANT TO THANK EVERYONE WHO'S COME OUT TO DO EARLY VOTING SO FAR. EVERYONE, ALL THE CANDIDATES WHO ARE SHOWING UP AND GETTING OUT THERE AND DOING THEIR THING TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ARE EDUCATED AND informed and aware of what is on the ballot and what you know who your candidate options are and just a another reminder that we're all neighbors here we all should be looking out for each other and taking care of each other and you can disagree with someone on political things you can disagree on a personal level but the people that are sitting up here and the people that show up in our meetings and that are keyboard warriors even them deserve respect and especially

keyboard let's remember to be respectful to those that are really putting themselves out there to serve you or to try to serve you and it's not in most cases because we want some big glory and we're you know going to put this on our tombstone but it's because we care about our city just like you do and I think that that's just really important to remember and I also do want to give a little shout out to our Cub Scout I'm sorry our Boy Scout um our not a Boy Scout he's a Eagle Scout, thank you. That is Ethan Coates, who's sitting in our audience here. He's attending his meeting tonight for one of his requirements, and his mom, Patty Coates. Additional plug, PTSA president. We are looking for help for the all-night grad.

We are looking for help for the concession sales that will go on at the Fairfax High School for the craft fair the weekend before Thanksgiving. I personally will not be here, otherwise I would be helping to lead the way. So thank you.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember McQuillan.

Rachel McQuillenThank you. We had a wonderful week last week. I had the opportunity to attend the Lamb Center Banquet. I was so moved by all of the speakers who shared their stories of what that organization has done for their lives. It was very moving. And I also enjoyed attending the Fairfax High School football game and seeing our Catherine Johnson middle school students, band students performing with the Fairfax High School Marching Lions. It was a great night. Unfortunately, our Lions didn't win, but it was a good night anyway. I also had a great time volunteering at Providence Elementary School's book fair last week. It's very special to be able to go back into an elementary school you spent 10 years serving on the PTA with

and to see some of the old teachers and the faculty and staff there. It was just really heartwarming. And then finally this Saturday, I want to wish everyone a very safe Halloween. Please, please, please drive carefully. Our children, they have a right to be kids. And so adults, please look for them and remember what it was like when you were a child as you drive through our neighborhoods that evening. Thank you.

Catherine ReadCouncil Member Amos.

Anthony AmosJust congratulations on being an Eagle Scout. I'd be very curious on what your project was, but that's it for me.

Catherine ReadCouncilmember Bates.

Billy BatesThank you. I just want to say that even though I'm not running again, I still care about the issues facing the city and collaboration among our staff and elected leaders. And we live in a representative democracy rather than a direct democracy. And community feedback is important for shaping our decisions. The ultimate form of citizen participation, though, is voting. And when citizens vote, they vote for the whole candidate and their values. And the next council must stay true to those values and act on behalf of all residents And they must also rise above partisanship and by partisanship. I don't mean who's on a slate and who's not I mean using grandstanding and misinformation to advance agenda and

They must also support our city staff and stand up for them When they're just trying to do the best they can to serve the city. Thank you

Catherine ReadThank you So I have to laugh about not putting our service on our headstone because mine is absolutely on my headstone, and it brings me so much joy. No, seriously, the dates and everything, it brings me a lot of joy. But I think it's just, no, it's just hilarious. So, yeah, we don't do it to put it on our headstones, but if you want to, you can. And I think that's really important for us to have made that distinction. So I will echo everything said here. We won't be back again until November 10th. important for everyone to vote this year. Democracy depends on everyone voting. Please don't sit out this election. That is the worst thing to do is to cede your vote to your neighbors or strangers. Understand what hangs in the balance

and please vote early. Vote on the third and we will see everyone back here on November 10th. We are adjourned at the remarkable time of 8.23 p.m. on Tuesday. Thank you. Thank you.